Vanda
Moderesa de Beagá
Ubá, BRASIL
Português/ Brasil
- May 25, 2007
- #1
Although I've read that the term spinster isn't considered so pejorative as it used to be to refer to a woman who has never married, my question has to do with the term used for
an old guy who has never married. Just bachelor? Is there a term for that?
AWordLover
Senior Member
Atlanta, Georgia USA
USA English
- May 25, 2007
- #2
Hi,
This is all about the force of societal expectations. There was a time when women were expected to get married and raise a family. Deviations from this "normal" path were met with disapproval. Times have changed (somewhat) !
The pressure for men to marry was/is less. Bachelor is the term for an unmarried man (it could be divorcee, or widower in some circumstances). Context determines whether the term batchelor is used disapprovingly.
Vanda
Moderesa de Beagá
Ubá, BRASIL
Português/ Brasil
- May 25, 2007
- #3
Ah, I understand! So if I want to refer to a guy who wasn't able to marry
because nobody wanted to marry him, (kind of stuck in his bachelor status) the context that I insert the word bachelor would give the idea, right?
JamesM
Senior Member
Los Angeles, California
English, USA
- May 25, 2007
- #4
"confirmed bachelor" is a phrase commonly used to indicate a man devoted to the single lifestyle and is often used by older single men to describe themselves. I think "single" is the common term for both sexes now.
As for "spinster", I think it would be considered insulting by most older single women I know, just as "old maid" would be.
Vanda
Moderesa de Beagá
Ubá, BRASIL
Português/ Brasil
- May 25, 2007
- #5
I've just seen James has answered my last question. Thank you both!
JamesM
Senior Member
Los Angeles, California
English, USA
- May 25, 2007
- #6
Vanda said:
Ah, I understand! So if I want to refer to a guy who wasn't able to marry
because nobody wanted to marry him, (kind of stuck in his bachelor status) the context that I insert the word bachelor would give the idea, right?
I don't think "bachelor" implies that no one wants him. In fact, when I was growing up, "bachelor" had a sort of debonair, sexy connotation, something like the connotation of "player" now. I think "bachelor" is much more neutral now, and a little old-fashioned sounding. "Destined to be single" might be a phrase to indicate that he is not likely to be successful in securing a long-term relationship.
On a side note, I think "spinster" and "old maid" were more common when the role was considered more permanent. It was a fixed role in the community. I think things are more fluid now and it's not assumed that someone will always be unmarried simply because they are not married at some given age.
Vanda
Moderesa de Beagá
Ubá, BRASIL
Português/ Brasil
- May 25, 2007
- #7
JamesM said:
I don't think "bachelor" implies that no one wants him. In fact, when I was growing up, "bachelor" had a sort of debonair, sexy connotation, something like the connotation of "player" now. I think "bachelor" is much more neutral now, and a little old-fashioned sounding. "Destined to be single" might be a phrase to indicate that he is not likely to be successful in securing a long-term relationship.
On a side note, I think "spinster" and "old maid" were more common when the role was considered more permanent. It was a fixed role in the community. I think things are more fluid now and it's not assumed that someone will always be unmarried simply because they are not married at some given age.
I am trying to find an equivalent term for a popular expression we have for this kind of person I quoted above: didn't marry because nobody wanted to marry him or her.(I know this is outdated in our modern world, but our people like to use it in a pejorative way).
Confirmed bachelor, as you've mentioned, would - kind of - describe it, although it doesn't give the negative conotation we use in our particular term. I think the best way is the one both of you recommended me before: insert it in the context.
D
dobes
Senior Member
bratislava, slovakia
US English(Boston/NY)
- May 25, 2007
- #8
I don't think we have a term for people who are not married because nobody wants him or her. Is there really such a person? Some of the strangest people are married!
JamesM
Senior Member
Los Angeles, California
English, USA
- May 25, 2007
- #9
I've been thinking a bit more about this, Vanda, and there is a little phrase we tack on to all sorts of things in American English to mean a permanent status - "for life." "He's a bachelor for life" does sound like someone who's permanently stuck in bachelor status.
Vanda
Moderesa de Beagá
Ubá, BRASIL
Português/ Brasil
- May 25, 2007
- #10
Dobes, in our culture we have very funny ways to deal with certain things. If a man or a woman only gets married long time after his/her friends - independently of the reason - we say they were "stuck". We can mean it in a derogatory or teasing way, according to the situation. If it is a friend of us, obviously we mean it to tease. In our modern world nobody cares about that anymore. I was looking for a word or expression to convey this concept!
Thank you people!
AWordLover
Senior Member
Atlanta, Georgia USA
USA English
- May 25, 2007
- #11
Hi,
I did see some phrase with the meaning you want vanda.
I can't recall what it was, "<blank> batchelor" I think, maybe unwilling or unintentional. I don't know.
This is the right place, maybe someone will remember.
JamesM
Senior Member
Los Angeles, California
English, USA
- May 25, 2007
- #12
I think you've hit on it, AWordLover! I found this via Google, among many other instances of "unwilling bachelor":
An unwilling bachelor(that means I'm looking,but not finding a woman).
Vanda
Moderesa de Beagá
Ubá, BRASIL
Português/ Brasil
- May 25, 2007
- #13
Great, people! I think that will do the trick!
Loob
Senior Member
English UK
- May 25, 2007
- #14
"On the shelf" sounds very much like the equivalent of your 'stuck', Vanda. But to the best of my knowledge it was only ever used for women.
I won't speculate on the reasons or this could turn into a very long post
Loob
Packard
Senior Member
USA, English
- Jun 25, 2020
- #15
Added to previous thread:
Cagey, moderator
Context:
Spinster is a pejorative term for a woman "of a certain age" who has never wed.
The nearest I can think of for men is "confirmed bachelor" but that lacks the pejorative flavor of "spinster".
Question:
Is there a word that means for men, what "spinster" means for woman.
Note: "Of a certain age" means "past the usual age for marriage" whatever that might be today. Also I think "spinster" is rapidly becoming a "orphan word", one with no generation still using it. Also, if she is rich enough "spinterhood" does not arrive. I doubt anyone would label the 66 year old Oprah Winfrey as a "spinster".
Last edited by a moderator:
ewie
Senior Member
Manchester
English English
- Jun 26, 2020
- #16
JamesM said:
An unwilling bachelor(that means I'm looking,but not finding a woman).
Or reluctant bachelor. Mind you, I wouldn't call either term especially pejorative.
I've also heard lifelong bachelors (and 'merry widowers') referred to ~
jokily ~ as gay old dogs, regardless of whether or not they're actually gay.
Oswinw011
Senior Member
Chinese
- Jun 26, 2020
- #17
How do you think of "incel"?
It's not one hundred percent fit, but there's a part of overlap between the unwilling bachelor and involuntary celibacy. Moreover, it's a rather pejorative word peculiar to men, and even more so to those who don't have a normal life.
bennymix
Senior Member
Now, Ontario, Canada. California; Princeton, NJ.
English (American).
- Jun 26, 2020
- #18
'incel' is not good, here. I'm not sure 'spinster' means 'involuntary', and certainly not 'involuntary and resentful about it' as in 'incel'.
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